standardGod Smites Teens

One of the key tenets of Christianity seems to be that God is responsible for everything that happens.  Whenever a Christian survives a near death experience they are always quick to thank God, even if they should be surrounded by those that God chose to strike down.  Such was the case recently when a plane crash landed in the middle of a crowded market in the Congo, killing at least 36 but sparing those on board.

On the flip side they are quick to attribute any disaster to the wrath of God.  John Hagee for example has blamed the destruction of New Orleans on tolerance for homosexuality.  Pat Robertson blamed America for the terrorist attacks of 9/11, saying it was punishment for turning our back on God.

So what then do you think fundies will make of this?

5 Comments Reply Now

  1. gmknobl

    I think you misunderstand the beliefs of many Christians. For example, free will, which is in part what the fable of Adam and Eve is about, logically dictates that we are now responsible for our actions. God is not responsible for them at all. Rather God has given us the choice between different courses of action. This doesn’t mean necessarily a choice between good nor evil, but simply different choices.

    This has little bearing on so called (legally) “acts of God.” However, it does not say that God is or is not responsible for the acts of nature either. That is, again, up to us as far as what we choose to believe. You can believe it is God causing that hurricane or that it’s simply part of a system that God, whether some sort of collective consciousness or single all-powerful being, “created.”

    Similarly, it may seem horrible to some that you thank God you are alive after a horrible accident. Sometimes very odd things can happen, whether coincidence or not, that seemingly defy logic and therefore are used as apparent proof of the miraculous. Should anyone else be concerned that an apparent illogical belief is leading to someone’s thanking a higher power. Unless they act to do harm to others, I wouldn’t worry about. But remember, it may not always be illogical if you consider that, as Clarke stated, “any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” This mean that if I am warned to look out for a blue car at stop signs because my mom had a dream about me being in an accident with one, then, being cautious, I later narrowly avoid an accident with a blue car – and this is the only time I’ve ever been warned about this – it may not be proof of the miraculous but rather proof of a technology (or physical laws of the universe) we simply don’t understand yet. That is equivalent to magic or the divine but the divine may thus be just very, very advanced. This doesn’t make it less divine but rather a different definition of divine as most believe in.

    Take a look at what Liberal Quakers believe and you may change your mind about what “Christians” believe.

    On to your last paragraph.

    Here we are simultaneously in the realm of both hate-mongers looking for ways of maintaining power and vent their unreasoning anger and in the realm of (potentially) Jungian Synchronicity. If there is some collective conscious, it is possible that we humans, as a whole, can have an affect, or be effected by, the collective subconscious. (I hope I am not misunderstanding Karl Jung here.) How is this affect expressed? Good question. But it is not entirely impossible that this could affect many things other than living creature (I’m not even going to venture in Gaia beliefs), but with weather and such, odd as it sounds. I don’t really believe this myself though. To me, we are in a system that has been created as it had to be. Weather is weather, and if any of our actions result in hurricanes, it’s simply the result of our producing too many greenhouse gasses.

    The religio-extremists like to blame every act of nature that hurts someone else as part of a vengeful God’s revenge. This is not what Jesus spoke of. He was a proponent of taking responsibility for your actions because they do affect others, not just in over, direct ways, but in frequently unseen, widespread ways. He even touched on some Jungian ideas in his preaching. Robertson, who is a bit on the mentally unstable side, and Hagee like to say horrible things about Katrina and the following hurricane and on and on about other disasters without acknowledging that some of their actions may have contributed to this disaster or that happening because of the policies they propound. They avoid responsibility by refusing to acknowledge their actions have supported horrible regimes that kill innocent people. They encourage others to have similarly lavish lifestyles in their broadcasts that simply cannot be maintained with promises of wealth, if you just give them money (give money to get more money?). This results in financial problems for many people who gullibly listen. And I just bet these guys had or have big SUVs or other huge gas guzzlers. And that puts out extra greenhouse gases needlessly, along with the multiple houses running AC all the time when they can only live in one at a time. That certainly contributes to global warming. Oh, I’m sorry, they don’t think that exists, does it?

    I’ve lost my point with the last section. Suffice it to say, these guys are low-life hucksters out to make a profit and gain power for themselves and are modern day pharisees, people Jesus always used as examples of how not to be.

    Reply
    • This post isn’t about personal responsibility or free will. Its about how Christians in general attribute natural events (good and bad) to the will of God. Whether its a Christian leader blaming non-Christians for natural disasters or the plane surviver (read above) saying that they were spared because God still had a pan for them (while God’s plan for the dead was apparently to be killed by a plane while shopping).

      Just read the comments below the story to see that I was right in saying that Christians do overwhelmingly attribute God in everything that happens.

      Reply
  2. gmknobl

    I guess that in your view, I’m in the minority of Christians. While I do feel there is a “plan” for me, I feel it is up to me to bring about that plan and if I’m killed by a crashing plane, I hope I get done most of what that is. After all, it’s up to me. Free will and taking responsibility for it IS what God wants us to do; we are here to better the lives of everyone IMO and we will be judged, perhaps by ourselves, by how well we do that. This is Christian; this is also a common theme in many religions and with many a-religious philosophies. It is simple human psychological response that makes people say “there is a plan” after surviving a horrible event. This doesn’t make it non-Christian though.

    What I’m trying to get at is that I feel you are off in your generalization. I’m showing you that your statement is wrong and more complicated than you suggest by discussing my and others I know beliefs. It would be interesting to take a poll and find out if I’m off in what I feel the (silent) majority believe wrt your and my posts or if, in fact, you have the majority pegged and I’m wrong.

    And I’m sure God doesn’t have a pan for anyone except the local Holy Cook (recheck your second post) – ;)

    Reply
    • only 24.4% of Christians believe in a distant god. The rest believe that God is directly involved in daily affairs. This belief is backed up by the Bible which credits God with controlling the weather and deciding who lives and dies.

      Ephesians 2:8-9 NIV For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast.

      The Bible also clearly states that God controls the weather. (Also Psalms 29:1-11 is pretty clear)

      Job 37:6-13 NET. For to the snow he says, ‘Fall to earth,’ and to the torrential rains, ‘Pour down.’ (7) He causes everyone to stop working, so that all people may know his work. (8) The animals go to their lairs, and in their dens they remain. (9) A tempest blows out from its chamber, icy cold from the driving winds. (10) The breath of God produces ice, and the breadth of the waters freeze solid. (11) He loads the clouds with moisture; he scatters his lightning through the clouds. (12) The clouds go round in circles, wheeling about according to his plans, to carry out all that he commands them over the face of the whole inhabited world. (13) Whether it is for punishment for his land, or whether it is for mercy, he causes it to find its mark.

      Reply
  3. Brooklyn

    This is an easy one. When something bad happens to someone else God’s motivations are clear just ask Pat Robertson. Only when bad things happen to you does God work in mysterious ways.

    Reply

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