Rep. Monique Davis (D-Chicago) got into a heated exchange with atheism activist Rob Sherman last Wednesday which culminated in her saying that he has no right to be there because of his religious beliefs (or lack thereof). This outburst occurred when Rob Sherman was testifying that Governor Blagojecich’s plan to donate 1 million in tax dollars to Pilgrim Baptist Church is unconstitutional (read about that here).
Here is a short transcript of the conversation, you can read the rest here. They also have audio. From listening to the audio I can say that Rob Sherman stayed calm and polite through the conversation.
Davis: It’s dangerous to the progression of this state. And it’s dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists! Now you will go to court to fight kids to have the opportunity to be quiet for a minute. But damn if you’ll go to [court] to fight for them to keep guns out of their hands. I am fed up! Get out of that seat!
Sherman: Thank you for sharing your perspective with me, and I’m sure that if this matter does go to court—
Davis: You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon.
What makes this more disappointing than the bigoted words of Sally Kern is that Rep. Davis is a Democrat with a strong voting record on reproductive and civil rights and the environment (see voting record here). I have come to accept this kind of religious intolerance from Republicans. I guess these things just go to show show just how deeply the religious right has embedded their intolerance into our society.
If you would like to let Rep. Davis know how you feel about her words here is her contact information. As always please be polite. I would expect an apology will be made shortly. For more reading check out Eric Zorn and PZ Meyers posts on this.
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2008-04-07 13:55:36
We need to re-establish the separation of church and state. This has done a great good in our society and others. Breaking down that separation has brought nothing but trouble.
As far as Ms. Kern goes, intolerance breeds intolerance; hate breeds hate. This may well be a case of reaping what you sew.
2008-04-08 11:13:48
I don’t have enough faith to believe in athiests. I don’t believe in them. I believe they really believe in God deep down, but they just don’t want to admit it. Plus, why do militant athiest get so mad at bible-believing christians or people who believe in God, if God is supposedly a figment of our imagination? Dawkins writes books and does public speaking and debates on the subject. He expends alot of energy over discrediting an imaginary nothing. And his life is a waste so far and will amount to vanity if he stays this course. Because long after he is gone from this world, the bible will still be here and the self-exsistent God will be here. And both will thrive. Look at the 80 million underground house church christians in China. Look at middle-east, where people are hungry for the bible and will risk their life to get a bible. And was the Jesus of history really a mere man? Napolean said no. Napolean said he knew men and this Jesus was no mere man.
In the end militant athiests are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
2008-04-08 15:07:34
I am not sure what “militant” atheists you are talking about. Every militant group I know of has religious ties.
I can’t speak for anyone but myself but as an atheist I get sick and tired of being told over and over again that I am a bad person, I have no morals, I’m dooming my children to hell or to be assaulted by pedophiles, and on and on. This makes me angry. It makes me angry that fundamentalist Christianity is destroying America and then blaming it on gays and atheists.
I’m angry that you presume to tell me what I believe in “deep down”. It’s ridiculous really and insanely arrogant for you to state that. I do not believe in a god and I certainly would not ever believe in the god of fundamentalist christians nor would I wish that sort of god on this world.
2008-04-09 08:34:24
I am shocked! I didn’t know you are an athiest, a mom, and a bad person. ha ha wow, such emotion! No, I am sure you are good mom and a good person. You have great passion for what you believe in. I just find it hard to rationally accept athiesm, in light of the fact that we are all born with an intrinsic knowledge of God. Also we all are born with a conscious. Additionally, children have a bent to do wrong. They hit their siblings. They disobey their parents directions. It seems to me that if children were born good, they would obey every command. They would love their brother or sister and not hit them. They would not act with jealousy. Those subtle behaviours in children suggests to me that we are born with an evil bent. And we need our parents to lovingly correct us and parent us. It seems to me the bible is right when it says we are born in sin, or another words we have an tendency to do wrong. Does that make sense? An innate knowledge of God, a conscious, and bent toward wrong-doing, are all evidences of a creator God and his creation. In summary I think the smart money is on the assertion that God IS and that we are born with a sinful nature. Athiesm is irrational.
2008-04-09 11:36:32
Sean, this has to be the dumbest, most offensive, and least supported argument I have ever read. I would take the time to respond but I feel it would be wasted on you.
Have a good day.
2008-04-09 06:48:10
Sean, you are the reason Christians have a bad name now. Just look at the intolerance you display. That is not what Christianity is about. Dawkins actions, when I’ve seen him, are not the actions of someone out to be mean but are based on honest beliefs that he arrives at, he believes, from pure logic. So he doesn’t believe in God. So what! I know Jesus existed and I believe he was someone special. I try to leave up to the ideals and philosophy I believe he espoused. That does not bring me into conflict with Mr. Dawkins at all. As an American and a Christian, I believe he has every right to state his beliefs in front of any government, no matter how much I disagree with them. His life is not a waste and Jesus would surely disagree with you there. However, a life is wasted hating him for his beliefs.
Just as with Bush, he’s done great harm to the world and our nation yet I won’t bother hating him, he’s simply not worth the effort. He has caused great waste in our world but the best way I can deal with it is to point out how his actions are wrong and destructive and anti-Christian.
Sorry, but snide comments directed angrily at Mr. Dawkins aren’t accomplishing anything, nor do my angry and oft snide remarks directed at Bush (mea culpa). So, turn your anger elsewhere and look to improving our lot by pointing out the inequities that are hurting our society, like intolerance towards athiests.
2008-04-09 10:03:39
Well said gmknobl. We have often made the point here that we are not anti-Christianity as a religion. Sadly there are many like SEAN that give the entire religion a reputation for intolerance and bigotry.
2008-04-09 11:27:46
You Gotta Be Kidding! Resorting to that wornout rhetoric of labeling someone intolerant who disagrees with you. You just said you, “I believe he has every right to state his beliefs in front of any government, no matter how much I disagree with them” in reference to Dawkins. Where is my respect and tolerance for the disagreements you have with me? You shouldn’t give people that much power in disagreements. People shouldn’t have that much power to so easily offend you. Anyway, tolerance doesn’t mean you have to accept someone else’s dumb ideas and praise them. That doesn’t make anysense. Louis Farrakhn believes that there is a mother ship orbiting the earth. That is a silly notion and yet I tolerate him. I don’t accept his spaceship story but I do accept him as a fellow human being.
I was commenting on the irrationality of athiesm and I was using examples like Dawkins and Hitchens as examles. Because they are extremely outspoken critics of biblical christianity and yet they make the dubious claim that there is no god. One would immediately wonder why so much energy and emotion is being put forth to condemn christianity. For example you hear the argument that christianity is so evil that is has caused wars and violence. Also you hear that it oppresses women. You hear that it is a form of child abuse for parents to teach such things to their kiddos. I strongly disagree with all those propositions. However, what gives me the most pause, is where is the source of all this hate and emotion from their side. I think these guys really hate God deep down; I feel like they have an estranged and disrespectful relationship with their fathers and they are transferring this hate to God the father. What do you think?
2008-04-09 11:48:04
“One would immediately wonder why so much energy and emotion is being put forth to condemn christianity.”
I would suspect that people are tired of guys like you forcing their crazy superstitious beliefs on them. Americans are supposed to enjoy freedom of religion yet the radical Christians are on a never ending campaign to turn our democracy into a theocracy.
2008-08-29 16:41:21
same can be said about christians you know though and on bible will still be here when dawkins is gone atheism and dawkins books will still be around as well atheism is as old as religion itself someone always has disagreed in a god and you dont know that there are 80 million underground christians in china some could be buddist and atheist like most are you just dont like that christianity is falling
2008-04-08 13:21:18
Administrator Note: Sean’s comments on Sally Kern and the replies have been moved to a more appropriate place. You can now find them here at “Bigots Support Sally Kern, Surprised?“.